Talk:Zen’ō (Canon)/PikabluTwo/@comment-35256776-20180408012420/@comment-32986854-20180415193913

"It's a plane of movement and an axis. Existing on the axis =/= Being superior to it. By this logic, I could say busting a normal size planet makes you beyond planet level even though that is your level of strength. Time itself isn't truly the 4th dimension, but linear time on the scale we are discussing is. 5D time includes branching out to make parallel timelines. You can't transcend something if you fucking exist on the level. This is disregarding logic. Not even a 2-A truly transcends linear time because at best, all they can is still affect infinite timelines at best and nothing more (based off the cosmological structure of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension of course)."

>False analogy fallacy. Moving on an axis does not correlate to destroying something in *any way*. Being above time would be walking on said axis. 5D time is including 4 spatial + 1 time dimension, not parallel timelines. I already see someone is mistaken on how dimensions work in general.

"Being on a higher dimensional plane =/= automatic resistance to hax. This is like arguing Matter Manipulation doesn't affect 4Ds. It's flawed as fuck logic and abuses Dimensional make-up like you are doing now. You can't gauge time hax by a dimensional scale. It's incredibly dumb logic. What's next? Plot Manipulation is limited to a dimensional scale? Please listen to yourself. Time exists in every dimension even infinite dimensional planes of existence as there aren't numerous temporal dimensions unlike space dimensions. Your logic is still flawed."

>Matter manipulation doesn't affect 4Ds if it's not directly affecting their body. If you're manipulating the matter around them, that wouldn't scare them as that's an object infinitely lower to them. Atom manip would affect a 4D as you're outright manipulating their atoms. Manipulating matter to create and destroy it would do nothing to the person as it's on a far lower scale to them. The difference between time manipulation and plot manipulation is that time manipulation is inherently regarded as 4D hax while plot manipulation is literally manipulating a story. One has to do with dimensions the other doesn't. Therefore you are comitting an association​​​​​​ fallacy. The logic is in no way inherently "flawed" once you look into it. You're above conventional time and linear time, why would stopping time have any affect on you when you walk on it as a physical plane?

"Exaggerating"

"Burden of Proof unless you can elaborate on more context. Such baseless statements based on flawed and fallacious logic don't debunk anything. It is you who is ignorant if anything. And no, Zamasu literally became infinite space-time itself AND the timeline. Jiren is outright confirmed to be stronger than every other character the DB cast has ever faced. That includes the sentient timeline himself. So no. You again have ignored things in an attempt to downplay DB. Please look at my profile justifications to understand why you are wrong and respectfully concede afterwards because I do not have time for such nonsense."

>You ignored the page on resistance, so complete argument from ignorance there. Zamasu became one with a timeline, infinite space-time would still be Low 2-C unless outright stated to have an infinite number of timelines. Zamasu only became one with a singluar timeline and was spreading his will across there. Jiren being stated to be the strongest would still only make him 4D at best. Your profile justifications were lack luster ​​​​​​hence why I ignored them. From what I've read here, the only person that's conceded is you.