Talk:Superman (Canon, Post-Crisis)/Niarobi/@comment-31883133-20200116102558

Superman fought Monarch, whose quantum power is like the Big Bang, and whose fight with Captain Atom was twisting space and time and causing compressed universes to explode.
 * AP
 * Zero Hour Vol 1 #0 September 1994
 * Unknown | Superman's heat vision made up one fourth of the power capable of creating a universe and causing the defeat of Hal Jordan, who was going to create a new universe, and the attack caused a Big Bang to occur.
 * The Ray, Darkstar (Donna Troy), Captain Atom, and Kyle Rayner absorb the plasma energy universe Parallax created, absorbing most of Parallax's energy.
 * Superman, Captain Atom, Darkstar, and the Ray send energy into Waverider who channels it into Damage. After, Spectre channels more energy into Damage, and a new Big Bang occurs.
 * Nothing states that Superman is contributing equally. Captain Atom and Spectre, Universal characters when not holding back, are contributing as well.
 * Our Worlds at War | Superman Vol 2 #172 September 2001
 * 3-B | After being powered up by Kismet, he defeated Imperiex-Prime, who contains the power of and causes a twelve-and-a-third-dimensional Big Bang.
 * Superman Amped with Kismet only breached his armor. It is only with his self destruct that Imperiex is Universal. Prior, he already consumed multiple galaxies. We are aware that one universe in DC has layers of dimension; however, they still follow along one timeline. This is universal or one timeline worth. Hyperversal in DC means to be even stronger than the New God's Godheads.
 * 4-B | Superman fought Imperiex probes for several days, | Adventures of Superman Vol 1 #594 September 2001
 * who can individually fight against and mortally wound Aquaman,
 * who was causing the universe to collapse on itself. | JLA Vol 1 #75 January 2003
 * Imperiex Probes aren't universal. They need a machine just to destroy Galaxies. 
 * Superman fought against Nebula Man, who is a universe. | JLA Classified Vol 1 #3 March 2005
 * All Superman did was punch him once with no visible damage, and take a head laser. Then Nebula Man just left.
 * Infinite Crisis | Infinite Crisis Vol 1 #5 April 2006, Superman Vol 2 #226 April 2006, Action Comics Vol 1 #836 April 2006 , Adventures of Superman Vol 1 #649 April 2006
 * Low 2-C | Post-Crisis Superman's fight with Golden Age Superman rewrote timelines and shattered a space-time continuum. It was repeatedly stated that they would destroy each others’ universes and then eventually they started shattering the universe again, and they were again shown rewriting timelines. The DC Comics website confirms that the two were shaking the space-time continuum apart.
 * Post-Crisis Superman defeated Superboy-Prime alongside Golden Age Superman, who can withstand a Big Bang, and who was considered on par with the Silver Age Anti-Monitor, who was going to consume the universe and was defeated by Golden Age Superman and Superboy-Prime even after absorbing all energy from the antimatter universe and using it to fight them.
 * Post-Crisis Superman only defeats Superboy after they crashed through a red sun. Superboy outright murders Kal-L.
 * Post-Crisis Superman was shown earlier to stalemate Golden Age Superman, who stalemated Silver Age Superman, who caused a universe to be created following the death of Maaldor, tanked the Big Bang, bursted through the bounds of infinity, shattered the barriers of space and time casually while flying, delivered a blow greater than any force in the universe, and fought against Blackstarr, a woman capable of destroying the universe and attacking him with the gravitational force of the whole universe, who also has absolute control over all aspects of the cosmos and all forces that created the universe.
 * You can't scale Post-Crisis Superman to Silver Age Superman because Golden Age Superman has grown much weaker up to Infinite Crisis.
 * Superman fights Blackstar, who wields the the energies of the cosmos. | Action Comics Vol 1 #850 July, 2007
 * Superman punched back Orion  | Death of the New Gods Vol 1 #2 December 2007
 * On New Genesis, the two exchanged punches and are described by Mr, Miracle to be evenly matched.
 * This is a boom tube amped Superman.
 * and fought on par with him on another occasion, | Action Comics Vol 1 #753 April 1999 , Superman: The Man of Tomorrow Vol 1 #13 March 1999
 * Superman stated after the fight that without his close exposure to the sun that the League might have killed him.
 * who tanked a weapon capable of annihilating the universe, | Jack Kirby's Fourth World Vol 1 #3 May 1997 - #5
 * Darkseid has pillaged the universe, destroying whole worlds to steal the power of the gods. He amassed power beyond ability to reckon. It is only through the Astro-Force that Orion is able to contain the Oblivion Bomb. This isn't his physical power.
 * as well as having one fifth the power of a Big Bang.
 * That's not what happened at all. Fate gathers the five of them together to form a cinque of cosmic power, pooling all of their mystic energies from their links to magic, the source, mystical forces, and a fragment of Anti-Life to hold back the relentless Entity, but even Fate knows this near-omnipotent power can't hold back Anti-Life. With no other options, Doctor Fate is forced to resort to a mystic firebreak, destroying the bridging dimension entirely, stopping the Entity's advance into their own. | Cosmic Odyssey Vol 1 #4 March 1989
 * Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds Vol 1 #4 June 2009
 * Superman fought 30th century Mordru who had all of the magical power of a universe.
 * Superman fought the Time Trapper, who is a sentient timeline capable of shattering timelines.
 * Superman has fought Brainiac 13 on three different occasions,
 * who can ravage timelines and rewrite the universe.
 * Captain Atom has destroyed and recreated the universe and can freely control it, and was going to destroy several universes, and oneshotted Jenny Quantum, who created a universe, tear apart a reality, contain a universe with her powers, and annihilated the Doctor, who can create a universe, and yet is weaker than Superman.
 * Superman tanked a punch from Icon,
 * who killed Starbreaker, who killed someone who was holding the universe together. | Justice League of America Vol 2 #33 July 2009
 * Icon doesn't even phase Starbreaker let alone kill him.
 * Superman is stronger than Doctor Sivana, who had the power of Shazam, who fought and stalemated the Invincible Man for several hours, who wields the power of the Big Bang.
 * This is Silver Age Superman
 * Superman survived an encounter with a tesseract swarm.
 * What is a Tesseract Swarm?
 * Superman defeats Black Adam,
 * who survived a tesseract expanding in his head.
 * Superman stalemates amped Shazam right after fighting Black Adam, who tanked a tesseract bomb in his base.
 * Black Adam isn't Universal
 * Superman fights Wonder Woman on multiple occasions, and even killed her once,
 * who can recreate the timeline with her Lasso of Truth, | Wonder Woman Vol 2 #136 August 1998
 * The Lasso, used to draw truth from the minds of others, is used to turn Wally's memories into living truth.
 * The panel says that they patched holes in the timeline, not recreated it.
 * can fight the Queen of Fables,
 * who is an extra-dimensional embodiment of evil folklore,
 * Extra Dimensional is not Universal by default.
 * and can withstand attacks from 4-D when she's utilising four-dimensional energy.
 * 4th Dimensional Energy is not Universal by default.
 * Superman fought the Red King, who can reshape the universe and destroy possibilities containing universes one by one, as well as having created the universe with his dreams.
 * Superman fought and overwhelmed the Kryptonian God Cythonna, who warred for a long time against the Kryptonian God Rao, who created the universe.
 * Superman pushed through the barriers of space and time, and then defeated the embodiment of his own Death, who caused the universe to compress on Superman, only for him to overcome it.  | Superman: Where Is Thy Sting? January 2001
 * This was all a dream and mind manipulation. 
 * Superman tanked Aztek's self-destruction of four-dimensional energy.
 * 4th Dimensional Energy is not Universal by default.
 * Superman can withstand attacks from and damage the Lord of Time, who is four-dimensional.
 * Being fourth dimensional just means that you can influence time. That doesn't make you universal.
 * 4-B | Superman tanks attacks from Firestorm,
 * who has the power of a Big Bang. | Brightest Day Vol 1 #10 November, 2010
 * The panel states that he could trigger a new big bang when he is at emotional odds. This energy level is not his normal state. Those blast at Superman are not Big Bang level.
 * Superman has overwhelmed Kyle Rayner on multiple occasions, who defeated an aberration that was breaking down the laws of space and time and the universe, remaking it into a world devoid of cause and effect and reason, and these changes were reverted by Kyle Rayner.
 * Superman overwhelmed Starman, who can defeat Darklord Maaldor, who can become a universe.
 * This is Silver Age Superman
 * After achieving the Theta State, Superman fought and overwhelmed Dominus, who created his own Phantom Zone. The Phantom Zone is described as a boundless dimensionless dimension between being and nothingness and it resides within the Sphere of the Gods, described multiple times as a Platonic, archetypal world, beyond the Bleed, which contains all dimensions, in which there are an infinite number of. The Phantom Zone exists at the same level as New Genesis, which is beyond the bounds of space and time. The Phantom Zone also exists at the same level as Heaven, which is beyond space and time and contains Platonic shapes.
 * Replication a dimension in a lower dimension does not make said person of a higher dimension.
 * Speed
 * MFTL+ | Superman tagged Professor Zoom and was stated to have speed who rivals his,
 * and Professor Zoom ran to the 25th century can move through multiple temporal dimensions, was going to run to the past to change it during his fight with the Flash, and can freely move through the timestream.
 * Normal Travel speed and time travel speed are very different
 * At least FTL | Superman reacts to Barry Allen and Wally West while they're running through time. | Final Crisis
 * They ran at Superluminal velocity
 * Superman kept pace with Jay Garrick and Wally West while they were chasing the Reverse Flash to the past.
 * Superman tied with Barry Allen in a race while holding back, tagged a fusion of Wally West and Barry Allen, and chased down and subdued Barry Allen.
 * Wally West ran to the 853rd century, outran the Black Racer to the end of time and the universe until death no longer existed on a conceptual level, he ran back to his time through the timestream, he ran into the Speed Force and changed history, chased Professor Zoom throughout time alongside Barry Allen, accidentally ran a few weeks into the future alongside Barry Allen, raced himself a few moments into the future by running into the future, Wally outpaces light, raced on a four-dimensional track that weaves in an out of space-time to the extent where sometimes he's shielding his eyes from the Big Bang and sometimes he's squeezing through a pinprick as the universe implodes into nothing, outpaced instantaneous teleportation from the point of view of ultradimensional gamblers, utilises the source of the Speed Force to morph hyperdimensional gels while fighting a White Martian, and ran through time through the slipstream alongside Jay Garrick and Barry Allen.
 * Superman flew back in time to the Big Bang when fighting Brainiac 13.
 * Superman pushed through the barriers of space and time when fighting against the embodiment of his own Death.
 * This entire comic was a dream and mind manipulation.
 * Superman chased Superboy into the future.
 * Superman outpaced reality-blitzing missiles that were sterilising the continuum.
 * Superman vibrates through to timestream to fly a man back in time.
 * This is Silver Age Superman
 * Superman can move fast enough to outrun temporal distortions in the past, present, and future.
 * Superman should be relative to Superboy-Prime who was capable of momentarily outpacing Jenni Ognat when she was running through time.
 * The scans do not imply anything about them running through time. 
 * Superman flew into Hyperspace, which is a realm that exists beyond space and time.
 * Traveling through Hyperspace is MFTL+, not immeasurable. It's like Star Wars.
 * Post-Crisis Superman should be relative to Silver Age Superman, who flew back in time through the timestream until he flew through a timeless, placeless dimension, flew around Kryptonians until he whisked them into the timestream, flew into his past self colliding head-on to send themselves into separate points in time and then proceeded to fly into the 30th century, he tore through space and time with his speed before facing Jaxon, flew through the past one occasion with Batman, flew to 1971 to bring people some milk, spun faster than time to move into the past, crashes through the time barrier to take a man back to his time, bursted through the bounds of infinity, shattered the boundaries of space and time with his speed, hurls Jimmy Olsen through the timestream multiple times, streaks through the barriers of time and space, breaking through time-space to fly into the past, carries a bunch of people through time, breaks through the dimensions of time and space to race time itself ending up centuries in the past, is sent through space and time during his fight with Ultimate Man and flies back; Silver Age Superman has flown through time so often that he's become immune to chronal distortions.
 * Why would they directly scale?
 * Post-Crisis Superman is relative to Golden Age Superman, who flew back in time to chart meteorite courses, flew through the time barrier, flies back in time by flying around in a circle to fly into the time barrier, skips out on a man by flying into the future through the time barrier, bursts through the barriers of time to run back three centuries, flies around the earth while breaking through the space-time continuum to travel to the past, flies back to his own time after helping people, and hurls an ape into the past.
 * Golden Age Superman during Infinite Crisis is not as strong as he was before.
 * Should be faster than Hal Jordan, who flew to the future without his lantern, and can travel a timeless distanceless barrier in an instant.
 * This is Pre-Crisis Hal Jordan
 * Should be at least relative to Shazam, who travelled between atoms to go back to the Big Bang and can fight in a realm in between and beyond time and space.
 * Should be at least relative to Wonder Woman, who is fast enough to move into the Speed Force.
 * Not a Speed Feat | Christina has used the scroll to open a magic portal to the Speed Force. After a brief monolog telling how she will pull Savitar out to screw up his plans of being one with the Force, she enters the portal. Jesse gets back the scroll, but only after they both have reached terminal velocity, a near "tipping point" speed where they both are a hair's breadth away from never coming back. Wonder Woman runs through the portal and Lassos Jesse in an attempt to slow her down and talk sense into her. | Wonder Woman Plus Vol 1 #1 January 1997
 * Should be relative to Aquaman, who can swim in the Secret Sea, which transcends space and time.
 * Superman moved around in a realm of non-space and non-time.  | Superman: Where Is Thy Sting? January 2001
 * This was all a dream and mind manipulation. 
 * Should be relative to Silver Age Barry Allen, who ran into the Source | Flash #175 (December 1967)
 * This is Silver Age Superman
 * Superman flew from Apokolips to Earth. | Adventures of Superman Vol 2 #3 September 2013
 * You literally can't fly from the Fourth World to Earth without a Boom Tube.
 * Superman flew out of the Source after Highfather said that it would be impossible to do.
 * It is only with the help of High Father's Staff that Superman was able to leave the Source.