Thread:Metal Mario875/@comment-24530269-20170614114813/@comment-26374068-20170615100525

@ArceusBowser: I have quite a number of problems... While I do agree with what you said for the Sonic characters (mainly considering how the Sonic characters are on some of the lower ends of 5-B, unfortunately)--so Knuckles even being a bit weaker would make him Low 5-B in the upper levels.

But about Peach being stronger than Bowser, and Toad being weak... I'll grant you that Peach defeated Bowser once in Super Princess Peach (she didn't one-shot him, tho. The had fought quite a bit before she launched him into the stratosphere, mind you)--the BiS example being faulty since Starlow assisted. Honestly, Starlow did most of the work, and there's a lot supporting that. Peach getting kidnapped is story--it's happened numerous times because Bowser overpowers her. The same thing happened in 64 (he even sealed her for eternity in that game), Sunshine (though Shadow Mario assisted), Galaxy (trapping her in a bubble in 2 and abducting her with her castle in the original), etc. etc. etc. There are so many cases where Peach tried to put up a fight (Paper Jam showing that she's scared of Bowser's power), so it's more along the lines of set in stone that Bowser is above Peach. Not to mention Peach had a one-time amp of her emotions in that game, making it the outlier. And sure, shattering the Dream Stone is impressive at first glance, but if you think about it hard enough? Not so impressive at all. You see--the magic (combined with Starlow's, once again) bypassed this "barrier" (not for sure if that's a barrier, considering all it let Bowser do was fly and it got bypassed by magic) and hit him. Not the Dream Stone, but Bowser... what this indicates is that Peach nor Starlow destroyed that stone through sheer force like Antasma did (especially questionable considering that, if such a thing did occur, then Dreambert and Starlow wouldn't have gotten so horrifically stomped by Dreamy Bowser mere moments later) to the Nightmare Stone, but rather, resonated the dreams within, causing it to burst. And the big reasoning behind Starlow doing the most work is that she's a Star Sprite--a representative of the same beings that sealed the Dark Star and protect the kingdom. Starlow also managed to discombobulate Mario, Luigi, Paper Mario, Ludwig and Larry all at once in Paper Jam with "Supernova Sparkle." Starlow has far more magical potency than Peach does, from story to actual demonstrations. And even taking such feats as fact, Peach accomplished said feats through magic. Thus, Bowser is still--physically--far above the princess. And considering the story of the original SMB on the NES basically describes Bowser's magic as only slightly inferior to Peach's, it's still highly questionable of how that works out for her tier.

And while I recall Peach beating Bowser once (technically twice when she had aid), Smithy and Culex as well as Wart (BS Super Mario USA shows that Wart is real, btw. While the original was a dream, they fought Wart for real in BS Super Mario USA, so they scale regardless), I don't recall the Koopalings. Either way, if that's impressive, I don't understand why you consider Toad weak.

I agree--he's far weaker than the Star Children and many others within the franchise. But he's far from weak. As stated, he defeated Wario once all by himself. He also aided in the defeat Bowser thrice, the Koopalings twice, and even defeated Wart, as well. Honestly, Toad is pretty dang consistent with his feats. I highly doubt "At most Small Planet level+" would cut it. And besides--we're both right, in a way. Some versions of Peach are stronger than Bowser and vice versa, as well as some versions of Toad being extremely weak with others being extremely strong. Mario having no canon and a loose continuity makes it to where the characters technically require multiple keys to demonstrate their inconsistencies--leaving everything accounted for, so you're not cheating them over for them being inconsistent. Because there are so many genres in Mario, it's best to organize them that way.