User blog:Metal875/The Marioverse's Canonicity

Hello everyone! This is a blog that will talk about the canonicity of the entire Mario series. I'm planning on touching on one topic in particular, but covering the rest of the series at the same time.

The Main Problem
Paper Jam implies that Mario and Paper Mario are actually separate people in separate verses, thus creating two canons.

Furthermore, people seem to believe that the cartoons, comics and movie aren't canon to the main games. I'm here to address this topic, starting with the former and eventually answering the latter.

The Age-Long Debate; Is Mario The Same as Paper Mario?
Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yes, and here's why.

Paper Jam tries to set a canon in a world that doesn't care about canon. Allow me:

"If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon... They might be businessman in one or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games."

- Shigeru Miyamoto

My source also says Miyamoto describes the cast as a "troupe of actors."

So, essentially, the "role" adopted here was that they were different people; but they were in fact the same. Think about it like this: an actor plays as one character in one movie but plays as another character in the next. Technically, they're different characters; but get down to the fundamentals, and they are indeed the same people. The Marioverse has done this before, too.

Case and point: Bowser and Dry Bowser. Wow, so we've got Bowser and Dry Bowser as separate people.

But wait! We've seen Bowser transform into Dry Bowser before our very eyes before! So, what happened here? As I said.

It's a simple role change. The Marioverse is made for inconsistency, just as an actor would be. They're not meant to stay the same way; they're supposed to change roles. They're supposed to be different in every game.

It's what the series is about; being whatever the plot calls for it to be. With this idea, we can deduce that everything in the verse can thus fit into canonicity without a problem; because it's not meant to be consistent, so inconsistencies don't matter. Now, I'm sure you want more proof for Mario being Paper Mario. Let's keep going; first, let's start with something strong. Here, we've got outright confirmation that Paper Mario is just a form Mario takes. This "form" is then confirmed as a mere design choice in Paper Mario's Melee trophy description. And then to further that, we have dozens of references between the series. Paper Mario 64's "Bowser's Castle" appears in its faithful design from the game in a "normal" Mario spin-off, that being Mario Kart: Super Circuit. Next, we have the Star Spirits from Paper Mario 64 appearing in yet another "normal" Mario spin-off. This time, it's Mario Party 5.

And stuff akin to this doesn't end here. Star Hill appears in three Mario games; Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, Paper Mario 64, and Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, which pretty solidly connects everything between all of the RPG series.

The final "reference" before we get to pretty solid confirmations is Goomboss--whom of which originated from Paper Mario 64 and promised revenge upon his defeat--returns in Super Mario 64 DS with the words, "Now the tables have turned!" Basically confirming that he is indeed the same guy who wanted revenge in Paper Mario 64. His presence alone counts as a reference, but him referencing the game's events just makes it all that much better.

Now, we have Toadette's Super Smash Bros. Brawl trophy description describing her as the same character who appeared in both Mario Kart: Double Dash and Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. Now we've got solid confirmation that they're the same. Let's get more solid! Here, we have Luigi's Diary from Paper Mario 64 outright state that Mario Tennis, Mario Party and Mario Kart are all things that happen in their universe. Heck, the words are even capitalized to represent that it's a reference to the official events/games they originate from!

There does exist an argument against this, and pardon me, but it's a rather foolish one. "The Paper Mario universe is roughly modeled after the main Mario universe. That means those events likely took place in their universe as well. It's also likely that the Paper Mario characters golfed and such in the past."

- Some Debaters

This takes a huge leap of faith and falls flat. Using this same exact logic, I could assume that Mario has "real life" Pure Hearts and fought a "real life" Dimentio and thus also has all the abilities that Paper Mario does because he went on his own "real life" versions of his adventures.

Never assume something that's never stated nor implied. Assuming like that is absolutely baseless and has literally nothing to back it up. It's a reference to the real-world adventures. And here we have irrefutable proof of such a statement. Mind you, this comes after Paper Jam's release, proving that that game's entire plot was marketing purposes, nothing more. Well, well, well... apparently, Superstar Saga, Paper Mario 64, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Bros., and Super Mario World all take place within the same canon. Interesting.

Like, seriously. They're outright stated to be blocks from Mario's past adventures. There's no argument to be made against that.

So, are Mario and Paper Mario the same? Yes. This has been confirmed so many times it isn't even funny.

I also find it odd how debaters single out Paper Mario being different, but never target Doctor Mario being separate from Mario (Smash 4 and Melee), Metal Mario being separate (Smash 64, Melee, Mario Golf 64, Mario Kart 8 and MK8 Deluxe), Baby Mario being separate (Partners in Time, Mario Kart series), Bowser and Dry Bowser discrepancies, etc. It's quite irritating, to be honest. All of those characters have been seen as separate several times, and yet are solidly confirmed as the same.

Treatment is different for Paper Mario, though. He's solidly confirmed as the same, but is separate for one game and suddenly the whole series has two canons? Ugh...

Anyways, what a headache. Furthermore, Nintendo never cared to create a canon for this series. Time to address the cartoons and such.

Roles change; it's as simple as that. The cartoons were based off the games; furthermore... let me ask you guys something... did you make Mario? There has never once been a canon timeline/confirmation about Mario's canon other than Miyamoto saying Mario can adopt different roles across media.

Source.

"The canon of a franchise is a system of classification that separates official media products from unofficial media products and official releases that are 'disowned' by the right holders or not intended to actually 'happen' in the fictional universe. These systems serve to determine which characters, locations, events, etc. actually exist in a series' fictional universe. Many franchises have official canons established by creators of the series, companies owning franchise trademarks, and other sources of authority. Unlike many other franchises, the Mario franchise and its many spin-off series do not have an officially recognized canon. Therefore, arguments over canonicity (canon vs. non-canon) are purely speculative, and are of no importance to wiki articles. Instead of using canonicity to determine the inclusion of various sources in our articles or the manner in which the articles are organized, the Super Mario Wiki opts instead to focus on Nintendo's involvement in a given source. Any officially licensed appearance, including Super Mario Bros., Hotel Mario, and The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! are considered official because Nintendo either developed the product itself or authorized another company to use the Mario brand. In the context of the articles, all official sources can be considered canonical and should be treated as such by all users. The Wiki voted to organize sources by series, meaning that Super Mario 64, Super Mario Kart, and the Nintendo Comics System may each be in a different section of the article. However, this does not mean any source of information is more canonical than the other. In no way should the organization of wiki articles be considered an assertion of what is canon in the Mario series. Instead, the organization of an article is simply a way to convey information in the most effective and efficient manner possible.

Of course this does not mean there are not discrepancies between different installments of the greater Mario franchise. However, since there is no official canon, editors should not hold the events of one source to a higher canonicity than another, even if they disagree with each other. Discrepancies should be noted in articles, but not speculated on. Essentially, it is perfectly fine to include disagreements created by different media products and it is not the responsibility of the writers to fix continuity errors. The wiki's goal is to cover the entire Mario series, not to resolve discrepancies between different sources of information. Ultimately it is of no importance whether a particular source is 'more canonical' than another source."

- Super Mario Wiki

This is a good way to judge Mario. If Nintendo knows it exists, co-signed for it to happen, or authorized it, then it happened in the canon. Discrepancies are what Mario is all about because his roles change; an actor could be a normal human in one movie yet a god in the next; it doesn't mean that any of those movies were never performed in by the actor. It simply means the role the actor played changed... just like Mario.

So, What's Canon?
Everything. All of Mario is canon.

Assuming otherwise is purely speculative and using discrepancies to decide canon is, quite frankly, wrong. As Miyamoto specifically made Mario to have discrepancies.

So, yeah. That's all I've got to say.

Mario is Paper Mario.

The cartoon, comic and movie are canon.

Everything's canon as long as Nintendo authorized its existence.