User blog comment:Doge and pupper/11-12D Dimentio debunk/@comment-26374068-20180515022104/@comment-32986854-20180516230910

1". I know the misconception of dimensions. It even says so on the Wikipedia article that the idea of dimensions referring to parallel universes comes entirely from fiction. I know that. However, that was never the point I was making... Jigen is the primary word in Japanese used to refer to dimensions. In fiction, there are actual examples referring to sunpou as universes and jigen as spatial dimensions; it's really not something I made up. Hell, in the case of SPM, it mentions The Void being a "hole in the very  dimensional fabric of space ." It is specified here... so I feel you're nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking." >There being examples is irrelevant to the point of the current topic. The idea of sunpou having certain times when it's mention as parallel universes would not be relevant to Mario. Secondly, scans on what the void is mentioned to be?

"Furthermore, "jigen" is actually the primary word for "dimension" in Japanese. Sunpou is not." >Sunpou is the exact same, there's actually no secondary definitiopn for sunpou, unlike "jigen".

"2. I never said this subjective premise of mine was objective. You're putting words in my mouth. The whole idea I was even going off of was that these details seemingly point towards String Theory in works in the verse. I specify that on my profiles, and I specify that it's "an odd detail" in the scan." >Apologies then, it seemed like you were applying it as objective here: '"People can't seem to accept statements or descriptions, so a showing of String Theory in the works would prove it." '

"String Theory Soup being a name is irrelevant in this case. A "Healing Potion" is a name, but it still represents what it's supposed to be. Supposed to do." >False analogy fallacy. We do not assume a healing potion heals due to the name Metal, we assume it heals do to what it '''actually does. '''

"The description of this item says that it will reveal all the secrets of the universe to you... something String Theory itself offers to do, explaining countless phenomena we humans can't reasonably explain. Then it goes on to say that man was never meant to know it anyways... which is consistent with reality, where we can't actually prove String Theory's existence. You're saying that we should ignore its name for the sake of ignoring it and acting like it has no connection to the description of the soup itself, when it doesindeed have all the matching characteristics."

>You're implying a vague summary as reasoning into why we should consider it's actual string theory. I'm not saying to ignore the name for the sake of ignoring it whatsoever, I'm saying we should ignore the name as nothing objectively proves it's referring to actual string theory.

"Just as a Healing Potion represents what it actually is, String Theory Soup represents what it actually is." >False analogy fallacy once again. Healing potion is taken literally when it actually heals, or certain "healing potions" like one made in Red Dead Redemption we'd take literal, even though it's literally a zombie attractor.

"And no, it's not following the same logic. Simply saying "String Theory" wouldn't prove anything, but the  context  within this situation says otherwise; it's literally saying that this answers all the secrets of the universe, not just randomly shoving "String Theory" in there and calling it a day." >Refer to my first point on the string theory debuckle. Secondly, it is following the same logic, it's the name of a soup that vaguely talks about a topic as broad as "secrets".

"And once again, I never stated that this is definitely, for sure String Theory. As a matter of fact, literally any and all feats in fiction are subjective; not everyone is going to agree. In the end, this is my "objective," but I realize it's subjective for the rest of you. And that's not the "actual model" for String Theory; that's a Calabi-Yau manifold. Something related TO String Theory, but not meant to represent it as a whole. What represents String Theory is the strings themselves; it's literally why it's called String Theory." >My point with the model stemmed more on the color scheme itself. The picture you used regarding to the strings was how the color scheme looked, it didn't directly match the model's color scheme.

"You're strawmanning my argument here. Never once did I say the name always auto-confirms everything. But if the description of that name portrays it as such, then yes, I do believe we should take it like that. Because then that's actual author intent. String Theory Soup talks about how drinking it will reveal all the secrets of the universe (something String Theory already relates to), and that those secrets were never meant to be known by man (just like String Theory). At that point, its name would reveal exactly what those secrets are. "Big Bang Attack" is a flashy name for an attack but has no canonical description saying it's a Big Bang; Steven Universe is the name of a show and has no feats or statements saying that they can destroy the universe. These are very, very, very different things, Bendy." >You're misinterpreting what a strawman is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man "A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

My point was the name and description are vague so coming to the conclusion of string theory soup is the same I can do with the big bang. The funny part is the reasoning you gave for big bang attack not being the big bang attack is the exact same argument I can give for string theory soup. It's merely a name that has no canonical description saying it actually refers to actual string theory, becasue merely giving "secrets" is a very vague term. Same applies to Steven Universe. Therefore I did not strawman you, I was using analogies of statements that didn't work for the same reasons string theory soup doesn't work, and you proved my point. No, they are quite the same Metal.

"3. You completely misunderstood me. I'm not saying that because Lineland makes homages to mathematical dimensions, it's suddenly supporting String Theory... what my original intent with that piece of evidence was, was to show that the Marioverse--specifically this game--outright acknowledges the existence of mathematical dimensions in a Physics sense. Merlon even did so; this is merely supportive." >Ok, so that once again stems back to my original point. Majority of fiction has mathematical dimensions by default as space and time exist in majority of fiction. Which makes the lineland point irrelevant as that would not support nor prove string theory in the verse, all that means is a 1D area exists. That's it. Therefore I didn't misunderstand you, I outright pointed out that point is useless.

"And here you use another strawman. Not ever did I say that showing some instances of spatial dimensions suddenly means the term will always refer to that. I have already stated openly before that Dimension D is a good piece of evidence to say they mean universe. However, Dimension D is literally pointless to bring up, since context, my friend, is a killer. The statement that brings up a Tier 1 "The Void" in this situation is Merlon's statement; Dimentio's pocket dimension has nothing to do with it. Merlon states, before saying that The Void will destroy all worlds and all dimensions, that it is a hole in the very  dimensional fabric of space . This means Merlon was referring to mathematical dimensions at the time of his statement; irregardless, it literally makes no sense for him to separate two things with two entirely separate words yet mean the same thing. "All universes, all universes" doesn't make sense at all, and now we're adding onto the fact that Merlon is purposely trying to separate the two terms? At least in this part of the game--where it matters most--it meant mathematical dimensions, not only due to the fact that the Japanese version is using its primary term for spatial dimensions, but because context says so, and sense itself says so." >Refer to my point on strawman. When did I bring up dimension D? Also again, you have still failed to show me where Merlon says this, I'll go over what's wrong with the mere idea of stating "very dimensional fabric of space" later, but I want to see the point first. Finally Metal, we're not talking about what you've said outside this debate, I'm directly addressing what you've said here. From your implication it seems like you're trying to imply Lineland's existence means dimensions = spatial. So the fault in this scenario goes to the person for not explaining correctly enough.

"4. If you say so, Bendy. I will defend my stance on the Marioverse's canon, though."

>I don't recall ever saying you won't. My point alone with this was same verse would still make the feat 2-B at most with my arguments, whether the canoncity sticks or not.

"Another strawman. When did I say he mentioned String Theory in the description? I've said countless times that the description itself describes String Theory, and the name itself then reveals what the description is talking about." >Refer to my point on strawman x3. The description itself does not describe string theory. It gives a vauge description of "secrets". Secrets do not apply to string theory.

"Why do you have every right to assume that it's saying String Theory doesn't exist in the verse? Its description and its name draw dozens of parallels... I don't understand why them being separated within the same item suddenly invalidates any and all correlation. What, solely because it doesn't outright say it to you every sentence?" >No, because nothing in it's own statement implies string theory in a narrow sense. The most thing stated here is a very VERY broad sense of the term "string theory".

"Back to the Health Potion thing... names and descriptions in games are almost all the time inter-connected." >Keyword: Almost. You know what supports the health potion? It actually does what it's named to do.

"This thing's description goes as far as to talk about real-life things that String Theory applies to, and is called "String Theory Soup," also saying that drinking it--the String Theory Soup--would teach you all the secrets of the universe... So, why then, are we able to assume that its name and description are for some reason not connected, despite them both being a part of the same item?" >Because if it was truly to talk about string theory itself, let's go over the following things it could have said to make this far more simpler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory It could of made a point on how drinking the soup could cause things like "vibrations"(a big thing string theory is centered around; vibrating strings), it could have mentioned the term "string" in any sense in its own description. You see what I mean here? I'm well aware, you're going to agree with High 1-C Mario, that's not the case here to get you agree that the tier is "wrong", my case here is to argue the points that I see wrong with string theory soup's reasonings. My point is the reasoning is left very vague.

"Butterfly companion? You mean Tippi? Uhm... Bendy, Tippi doesn't make that statement." >Kk, gonna kill Sebastian for that later.

"Merlon does. And even then, Merlon is quoting the Light Prognosticus, which comes from The Ancients, who are constantly emphasized as some sort of supergeniuses. My evidence of them being "aware" of the main multiverse is the fact that they're a part of it; SPM Paper Mario lives in the same house and kingdom as TTYD and PM64 Paper Mario, whose adventures have parallels with the main series; specifically the latter. The Paper Mario games have gone from outright saying they're the same as the other games, to making countless references of actual events and locations, or locations or characters actually reappearing. Also, the statement isn't "all worlds I know of." I feel author intent really gets us here; they're trying to say that everything in the verse is at risk. Nothing will be spared." >Alright, then it's fine. Again, going to kill Sebastian for that.

"As for your "all" counter... okay, yes, I agree all is sometimes a hyperbolic word. Other times, though, it's just a strong word. "All powerful" is hyperbole without strong evidence to back it up, since that's synonymous with omnipotent. But all existence? I don't get how that's hyperbole... I really don't. Especially when the statement comes from supergeniuses who have traveled through the worlds in search for resting places for the Pure Hearts, and when the feat is literally being demonstrated as you travel the worlds; including the literal afterlives." >My point in general that going by "all" alone isn't an outright way to claim this is the outright thing that's going to happen. I actually do agree dimentio will destroy all existing universes in Paper Mario verse.

"1. I don't know about Mxy, but I'm sure Nia has more meaning behind it. I'm more concerned about your second point..." >I discussed this with Nia in discord and he continously misunderstood my meaning for this. My point was comparing what Doge said to Mxy's dimensionality, in a verse like DC where dimensionality of 5D imps can have them be harmed by 3D lightning and bust infinite dimensional structures, isn't a good analogy to use.

"2. He didn't take it out of context. The page actually mentions rulebooks and such, saying if the thing doesn't do exactly as it says it does in gameplay, it can't be legit. For example, if an item states it'll heal all broken limbs but merely heals your HP, that'd be Flavor Text because it's not demonstrated in-game, despite the fact that the descriptions and such--the lore of the item--says otherwise. Gaming limitations are tough to overcome; designers specifically have to dumb down things to not break the immersion. In a way, using Flavor Text is using game mechanics over lore." >My point was that he took that flavor text = non-canon out of context. Flavor text doesn't mean non-canon at all. It's merely for world-building. That's it's meaning.